• TheCyberDoctor

    I couldn’t agree more. Its great to see the show being reflective on its past, presenting similar issues but having them go in a different direction. It shows how far the characters have come. The ending scene encapsulates this perfectly, with a much stronger and powerful Dany than she was back in series one. A brilliant episode. A fantastic review. ;)

  • ShalkaDoctor

    What parallel universe is this?

  • The Oncoming Hurricane

    ‘Interestingly this is the first we see Ser Davos inquire about Stannis’ face, something I do find rather odd that it took him so long.’ Harsh, man.

    • Mark McCullough

      As Typos go, that has to be one of my better ones

      • The Oncoming Hurricane

        Poor Stannis. I happen to think Dillane’s quite handsome, in a rugged way.

  • The Fabulous Administrator

    To be fair, Davos hasn’t really had much chance before now to inquire about what happened to Stannis. All the scenes at the wall over the past few episodes have happened over the course of 3 days after all and they have been busy days:

    Day 1: Mel comes back to the wall. Jon is stabbed. Davos and loyalists hole up and Edd goes to get wildlings.

    Day 2: Thorne brings the nights watch to his side. Gives Davos until nightfall to surrender. Wildlings arrive and mutineers taken into custody. Mel ressurects Jon.

    Day 3: Jon wakes and adjusts to being alive again. Jon kills Mutineers and leaves the Watch. Sansa, Brienne and Pod arrive.

    The fact is, just because we see stuff in one episode doesn’t mean they all happen at the same time (this accounts for the short travel times). Dany’s scenes could be happening weeks/months after or before Jon’s. Each series shows the events happening over the course of a year after all.

    • The Oncoming Hurricane

      Yeah, and now you run into the problem of ‘why didn’t Davos ask when Mel comes back’?. There’s at least several hours between that (it’s day) and Jon being stabbed (it’s dark).

      The timelines at the Wall and Winterfell also have to be synched to some degree, because of Stannis. The birth of Walda’s (full term) baby in 6×02 throws everything off. Her pregnancy was announced in 5×05, so Stannis was in the field for 4 months (because Roose knows Stannis is coming on the same day as the pregnancy announcement is made), if we’re being generous to say it was discovered at 5 months. Now, according to your timeline, Sansa arrives back 2 days after Mel does…Mel who left on the morning of battle. That puts the journey time from Winterfell to the Wall at 2 days when it took Stannis 4 months to do it (and it took Bran weeks). When you factor in Lord Karstark (why was he even there) arriving just after Sansa leaves, literally 2 days after a battle (why was he walking into that), your timeline flat does not work.

      • The Fabulous Administrator

        There’s nothing in the show that implies Mel arrived at the wall the day of the battle. Days/weeks could have passed since then. As I said, just because we see events happen close together it doesn’t mean they all happen close together. Let’s not forget Jon went to Hardhome and back which easily adds several weeks at least to the Wall timeline. Winterfell and the Wall stop being synced as soon as Stannis leaves and Jon leaves for Hardhome. The Wall scenes are happening much later than Winterfell’s. We’re only seeing scenes happen together for narrative convenience.

        Mel gets from Winterfell to the Wall in the space of an episode but that doesn’t mean the night she arrives is the same day she left. The journey must take a few days at least and this is assuming Mel rode with minimal rests. Sansa and Theon’s escape and Stannis’s death likely occurred during Jon’s return trip from Hardhome giving Mel time to have covered a great deal of distance. Even then we have no idea how much time passed between Jon’s return and Davos and Mel arriving. Jon’s trip could likely have taken days to weeks (depending how long he was travelling on foot for and how far the ships carried them). You’re assuming that because we see events in the same episode they happen close together when this has never been the case. This is why it feels like some characters “teleport”. It’s because some storylines are happening weeks after others. And don’t forget an entire army moving on foot moves much slower than one person on a horse so it is possible Stannis did take several months to get to Winterfell. The snow could have slowed them down much more. They likely had entire weeks of making very little progress. It makes Stannis’s dilemma more believable if we consider the fact it’s taken him weeks to cover a short distance.

        Why doesn’t Davos ask Mel about Stannis when she comes back? The Red Woman implies Mel has locked herself away and isn’t talking to anyone. It’s likely Davos tried but didn’t get a response.

        Each season covers a year. Some storylines happen much later than others. They’re starting to be synced now due to characters meeting. The timelines are not synced at all. Let’s not forget Jorah and Daario cover the distance Dany took 3 seasons to cover (the distance between Meereen and Vaes Dothrak) in the space of 5 episodes. So just because something happens relatively close in the show doesn’t mean that’s when it really happens unless it’s stated. Add in travel times and most storylines are out of sync.

        • The Oncoming Hurricane

          I never said Mel arrived at the Wall the day of the battle.

          Mel gets from Winterfell to the Wall in the space of an episode but that doesn’t mean the night she arrives is the same day she left. The journey must take a few days at least and this is assuming Mel rode with minimal rests. Sansa and Theon’s escape and Stannis’s death likely occurred during Jon’s return trip from Hardhome giving Mel time to have covered a great deal of distance. Even then we have no idea how much time passed between Jon’s return and Davos and Mel arriving.

          Okay, if a lot of time passes between Jon returning and Davos returning, then does a lot of time pass in between the conversation between Jon and Sam before the latter leaves at the start of 5×10, and Jon’s convo with Davos. There’s no direct implication that much time has actually passed between the conversation with Sam, and the conversation with Davos who we don’t actually see arriving. If a lot of time does in fact pass between these two scenes, why doesn’t a lot of time pass during that scene and the one of Jon being stabbed. Sure, it’s night, but it could be a completely different night.

          And no, but Mel leaves on the morning of the battle. Sansa begins her Winterfell escape later that day/night, and is still on the run the following morning), at which point she runs into Brienne, leaves Theon and starts heading to the Wall herself. All the Winterfell scenes follow from each other so unless you’re suggesting Brienne and Sansa hung around at Winterfell with Ramsay after them (lol), Sansa leaving for the Wall happens less than 2 days after Mel left for the Wall. Factor in Lord Karstark arriving just after Sansa leaves (has to be the case, he finds the bodies of Ramsay’s hunters before the Bolton guards themselves do and they aren’t buried in the snow), and we have a massive problem. When he left Last Hearth, he would have been walking into a battle. He did not come with an army though. Why is he there? We could say it’s to watch Roose die but…Roose isn’t actually surprised to see him (seriously, nothing about this guy makes any sense). The only way this scene works is if there’s been at least several days since the battle. That’s not the case though or there would be no bodies to find since snow is in fact a thing that is happening.

          And don’t forget an entire army moving on foot moves much slower than one person on a horse so it is possible Stannis did take several months to get to Winterfell. The snow could have slowed them down much more. They likely had entire weeks of making very little progress. It makes Stannis’s dilemma more believable if we consider the fact it’s taken him weeks to cover a short distance.

          Yeah it took Bran weeks to cover what is not at all a short distance. It’s the size of the other six kingdoms combined. If the snow slowed them down much more more than that, it should have slowed Davos on the way back, yet Melisandre makes roughly the the same time to the Wall. If it takes Davos any more than a couple of days the argument Jon and Stannis is having is redundant, because Davos would know that they lack the stores to mount a siege (they lack the stores to make it back to the Wall, he’s told this, a siege would be no different) and the wildlings and supplies wouldn’t actually get there in time to do anything and Sansa likewise makes the same time as Mel does.

          Also, if Davos has barely been back at the Wall before Jon gets stabbed, why is he so attached to Jon’s body (no, not like that), that he’s prepared to risk being killed over it when he has a wife (and possibly younger sons) back on Cape Wrath. He’s already dead, what does he think Thorne’s gonna do, apart from burn the thing (and if the Jon loyalists want to avenge him they kinda have more chance if they’re back in the rest of NW)? The only way this makes sense if he knows resurrection can be done…and he doesn’t. He shouldn’t even know resurrection’s possible, as it bears no relation to what he’s seen of her magic. Another spanner in the works is the Vale scene. ‘Not long ago’ Lord Royce received reports that Sansa had been married to Ramsay. You could say this is taking place a while before the Wall scene, but…uh, no, in the same scene, Littlefinger has heard reports that Sansa has escaped Winterfell. These things happened about 4 months apart, both statements cannot be true.

          Each season covers a year. Some storylines happen much later than others. They’re starting to be synced now due to characters meeting. The timelines are not synced at all. Let’s not forget Jorah and Daario cover the distance Dany took 3 seasons to cover (the distance between Meereen and Vaes Dothrak) in the space of 5 episodes. So just because something happens relatively close in the show doesn’t mean that’s when it really happens unless it’s stated. Add in travel times and most storylines are out of sync.

          If a year’s passed with each season, why is The Incredible Shrinking Baby Gilly’s baby about 6 months old when it should be approaching 3 years (and thus be a toddler)? That is one slow-growing baby. Also why is Tommen about 7-8 years older than he was at the end of S2 (I know he’s been recast, but is apparently old enough to consummate the marriage with Margaery in S5 that it doesn’t raise eyebrows). The two combined would mean nearly 8 years have passed in King’s Landing and just 6 months at and beyond the Wall…uh.

          Your point about Daenerys is a strawman. It would only make sense if her original destination was Meereen in the first place. It was not. After 1×10 she headed much further away from Meereen than she currently was. Meereen did not become a destination she had in mind until she landed in Astapor and acquired the Unsullied. Do you actually have a point?